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Post by ManWithNoName on Apr 10, 2020 15:03:58 GMT -5
I would just add Hayes to Nick’s 4, and that would be my five choices.
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Post by Nick on Apr 10, 2020 15:12:16 GMT -5
I'm just not a fan of Fox at all. Had some good years but under 37% block success across his career. If we are doing our final 5, mine are; WR Grayvil WR Shelton DE Hayes TE Baysinger DT Cheuse Yeah I think I need to start looking at the block success stat, got in to the habit of not. It knocks him down some for sure. 3rd all time pancakes and 0.5% sack rate is still very good. I will reserve judgement for now, see who else comes up. Really don't rate Baysinger. Can't get past Downs far greater ypt. Walters look much like Baysinger.
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Post by Nick on Apr 11, 2020 12:57:32 GMT -5
How would you guys rank (not you Rob) Teddy, Puzz, Delcorio, and throw Diaz in just for fun, SB MVP and presume 15% more of the same stats.
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Post by Joel on Apr 11, 2020 13:06:27 GMT -5
I would just add Hayes to Nick’s 4, and that would be my five choices. I ditto this
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Post by Joel on Apr 11, 2020 13:07:52 GMT -5
How would you guys rank (not you Rob) Teddy, Puzz, Delcorio, and throw Diaz in just for fun, SB MVP and presume 15% more of the same stats. Puzz (only because I remember that Texans team having very few weapons and he single handedly carried a team to a bowl), Delcorio, Diaz, Teddy
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Post by schwantz on Apr 11, 2020 13:19:08 GMT -5
Delcorio, Teddy, Diaz, Puzz
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Post by Nick on Apr 13, 2020 16:19:26 GMT -5
I am just weighing up Cheuse versus Hayes for the 5th spot.
How you rank those 4 QBs Steve/Evan?
Anyone think any of them ever make the HOF?
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Post by rush27 on Apr 13, 2020 16:36:24 GMT -5
I think Puzz has the best chance. Haven't really compared any of them but think he fits into the RZB story
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Post by ManWithNoName on Apr 13, 2020 20:30:00 GMT -5
I am just weighing up Cheuse versus Hayes for the 5th spot. How you rank those 4 QBs Steve/Evan? Anyone think any of them ever make the HOF? Puzz’s numbers are almost identical to McNeil’s, so I don’t know if you can talk about him without also considering McNeil. Delcorio has the best peak of any of them while on Rob’s team, but he also played well with the Saints. Probably go Delcorio, Teddy, Puzz, Diaz.
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Post by Nick on Apr 14, 2020 15:23:50 GMT -5
I think the spread of the voting shows how close all these guys are, meaning ultimately none will get in.
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Post by ezlee2 on Apr 17, 2020 12:01:09 GMT -5
My take on the QBs discussed here:
1. Hartman - He will forever be in Perry's shadow, but what he has done is incredible and his story still has yet to come to completion.
2. Delcorio - From the start of this HOF committee we were told that QB rating is king right? That Teddy's lack of high QB rating was what held him back from the other tier. Well, outside of postseason success Delcorio is right up there with the all-time greats. IMO, he is the RZB's version of Dan Marino. He had 8 straight seasons with a QB rating of over 100. The Goat had 8 total. The only other player with those numbers is Keith Hartman who has been over 100 the past 8 seasons. Delcorio should not be penalized for his lack of production in the past two years as he is merely a backup QB at the twilight of his career.
I know Nick will call this a homer pick, but I'm looking solely at numbers and you can put any name next to this guy and those numbers put him in the group of the elite.
3. Puzz- IMO, this is where you need to really take a look at the entire body of work of a player's career. In my eyes, he is a HOFer despite his lack of elite career QBR. He helped define an era of this league and he threw for fucking 70,000 yards and he was the type of player that you always felt had a chance to win the game. He always reminded me of a John Elway type of player. Pkus, he holds just about every other important QB record. If you go solely on the argument that kept Teddy out of the HOF then Puzz has no shot at a 87.8 career blip.
I don't think Diaz is a HOFer at all. He is in the same ballpark as Teddy, Luck, McNeil, Hutchings, and Jon Smith. All really good QBs and part of the RZB narrative for sure, but not worthy of the lofty standards we set from the start and Nick fought so vehemently to uphold. I admit, that I was frustrated at first with Teddy not making the HOF, but I 100% understand and accept and support it as long as that standard remains the standard.
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Post by ManWithNoName on Apr 17, 2020 12:38:41 GMT -5
Puzz is definitely a difficult one to pick. Had some great seasons but still never felt like he truly played like he was capable of. I’d have to go back and look but I think his rating was mostly brought down by his handful of seasons in Green Bay when he had basically no help on offense. If he’d played his entire career in Houston maybe his numbers would look a little better. It also took him forever to finally reach his potential. It was something like 5 seasons before he was maxed out. He was very underdeveloped when he came into the league.
Guys like Hartman and Delcorio both get their ratings boosted from playing on teams like the Steelers and Seattle. You saw how Hartman did outside of Seattle. It’s not going to bar him from the Hall of Fame, but I think it’s worth mentioning. Delcorio’s body of work outside of Pittsburgh I think really helps his case because his production didn’t seem much change. He looks like the type of guy that could would have been successful just about anywhere. What does hurt him is his career as a starter was relative short compared to most franchise QBs.
I like Diaz but like Rob I don’t see him as a HoF’er right now. Maybe in a few seasons I’ll change my mind.
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Post by Nick on Apr 17, 2020 13:05:51 GMT -5
Nice post Rob, I don't disagree with anything you have said. I am struggling to place these guys. Puzz vs Delcorio in particular. Diaz may well add some more to his case.
The whole rating thing is JMO and not standard criteria. Plus I believe we should consider the surrounding team and the advantage of high end talent to any QBR. But JMO and selectors are not bound by this.
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Post by Nick on Apr 17, 2020 13:15:43 GMT -5
You know outside of the ring Puzz is very Brett Favruh stat wise. 70,000 yards, ratings, longetivity.
Despite my ratings bias I think he tops my list, followed by Delcorio.
Favruh was media hyped to death. I guess we have our owned brand of hype and Puzz really didn't get that much during his career.
Thoughts on Favruh comparison?
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Post by ManWithNoName on Apr 17, 2020 13:21:20 GMT -5
You know outside of the ring Puzz is very Brett Favruh stat wise. 70,000 yards, ratings, longetivity. Despite my ratings bias I think he tops my list, followed by Delcorio. Favruh was media hyped to death. I guess we have our owned brand of hype and Puzz really didn't get that much during his career. Thoughts on Favruh comparison? Farve was a little before my time. Watched the tail end of his career with the Jets and Vikings. If he was in this game he might be an 80 but his AI would be a 20.
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