|
|
Post by rush27 on Apr 3, 2020 12:53:54 GMT -5
Just to clarify, I don't believe everyone on my list should be considered. I just look at the guys who are worth a mention.
If I missed anyone, please feel free to add them to the thread.
Whittling it down to five players every year should be hard to do and then throwing them a HOF vote even harder. First ballot? Well that's another level altogether.
|
|
|
|
Post by Joel on Apr 3, 2020 12:54:01 GMT -5
I am torn on Shelton and Grayvil. I think they probably would be the weakest 1st ballot players we have inducted. But I am leaning towards voting for them both as 1st ballot. As Rob says they were just on the forum every other week. We voted 2 RBs in 1st ballot. So maybe 3 WRs is okay. But then, I do think this is debatable. Sinclair is clearly no.1 IMO. Mind listing the 1st ballot guys, might help people make their mind up Shelton and Grayvil are on par with Rawls and Chamberlain for me. Sinclair is just special beyond what most guys have been, and the only guy I can put up their with him is Perry. So to compare other WRs to that is unfair |
|
|
|
Post by Nick on Apr 3, 2020 13:59:40 GMT -5
On a side note, what are the chances that he returns for season 15? I think I've seen that a few times and he's only 34. Funnily enough I was looking last night. Only 15th year non skill guy is a Vikings CB. But with his ratings and age I would say 40-50% |
|
|
|
Post by Nick on Apr 3, 2020 14:02:42 GMT -5
I am torn on Shelton and Grayvil. I think they probably would be the weakest 1st ballot players we have inducted. But I am leaning towards voting for them both as 1st ballot. As Rob says they were just on the forum every other week. We voted 2 RBs in 1st ballot. So maybe 3 WRs is okay. But then, I do think this is debatable. Sinclair is clearly no.1 IMO. Mind listing the 1st ballot guys, might help people make their mind up Shelton and Grayvil are on par with Rawls and Chamberlain for me. Sinclair is just special beyond what most guys have been, and the only guy I can put up their with him is Perry. So to compare other WRs to that is unfair I wont have time tonight as I have tv to watch and people to shoot. But tomorrow should be okay. Sinclair over Rawls and Chamberlain, man I don't know about that. I don't think so myself. I would say only Perry lives in their league. But I am sure opinions will vary. |
|
|
|
Post by ManWithNoName on Apr 3, 2020 14:37:07 GMT -5
Are these guys similar to Chamberlain and Rawls? Difficult to say. All I know is that Grayvil averaged 5.13 yards per carry so running the ball must not be too difficult.
|
|
|
|
Post by rush27 on Apr 3, 2020 14:50:17 GMT -5
First ballot HoFers
RB Rawls 2024
DT Brown 2026
T Fonda 2029
TE Moss 2031
QB Perry 2031
RB Chamberlain 2031
C Hitchcock 2031
DE Hoffman 2032
G Nixon 2035
LB Garcia 2036
|
|
|
|
Post by ezlee2 on Apr 3, 2020 14:50:34 GMT -5
I noticed IHOF had 2 WRs play for 15 years, 1 for 16 and 1 for 17 years. NAFL did not have anyone over 14, but that league is so strange when it comes to stats compared to a lot of other leagues.
|
|
|
|
Post by Joel on Apr 3, 2020 15:01:24 GMT -5
After seeing that 1st ballot list, Shelton and Grayvil are more worthy of the title than half of those on that list
|
|
|
|
Post by Nick on Apr 3, 2020 15:09:52 GMT -5
After seeing that 1st ballot list, Shelton and Grayvil are more worthy of the title than half of those on that list Don't see that. Those guys are the best at their position. Sinclair is the best WR, with Dunn lurking. |
|
|
|
Post by rush27 on Apr 3, 2020 15:28:20 GMT -5
After seeing that 1st ballot list, Shelton and Grayvil are more worthy of the title than half of those on that list I think every player is in a class of his own, in his position. Except for the RBs who are clear top two of all time. Who will be the first, first ballot Hall of fame WR? |
|
|
|
Post by Joel on Apr 3, 2020 18:41:12 GMT -5
SO, here's what I see.
Lets start with Grayvil.
- Only 2 seasons under 1000 yards, his 1st and last, acceptable.
- a higher YP/T than Sinclair (therefore an argument can now be made as to who really is more productive. Possibly Sinclair was overthrown)
- a better catch % than Sinclair
- was targeted less than either Shelton or Sinclair making his stats even better.
- The year in which he seriously helped a team win the Bowl, he was 9+ on YP/T
- in the NFC championship game, caught for 164yards
- in the bowl, caught for 184 yards
- also, must add, this guy is the leader in all stats post season. Please look at sinclairs post season stats before you call him the WR GOAT. (Sinclair is at 6.35 YPT, doesn't scream GOAT)
- Oh Grayvil's playoff YP/t is 9.40 FWIW
INTEGRAL TO A CHAMPIONSHIP RUN. Now ive looked closely, it cements it even more, 1st Ballot
Now for Shelton.
- Time at the Vikings has to be considered the greatest WR run IMO. TDs, YPT, you name it, elite in those seasons.
- Overall, his stats look worse than Gravil and more on par with Sinclair due to his poor LAC years.
- The Bowl game, nuff said, but I will elaborate for those who forget. HE TOOK OVER. 212 yards on 14 targets, 4 touchdowns. If he retired at the end of his Viking career, he is still a HOFer.
- UMMMM YAH! THE 2nd BOWL. Against nick for an LAC team who were written off. 178 yards on 10 targets, 2 TDs
THIS GUY SINGLE HANDEDLY WON 2 TEAMS. YES 2 TEAMS BOWL GAMES.
He may not have quite the same stat line, but for those moments of greatness, to an already incredible career, he must be 1st ballot as well.
|
|
|
|
Post by rush27 on Apr 4, 2020 0:15:34 GMT -5
SO, here's what I see. Lets start with Grayvil. - Only 2 seasons under 1000 yards, his 1st and last, acceptable. - a higher YP/T than Sinclair (therefore an argument can now be made as to who really is more productive. Possibly Sinclair was overthrown) - a better catch % than Sinclair - was targeted less than either Shelton or Sinclair making his stats even better. - The year in which he seriously helped a team win the Bowl, he was 9+ on YP/T - in the NFC championship game, caught for 164yards - in the bowl, caught for 184 yards - also, must add, this guy is the leader in all stats post season. Please look at sinclairs post season stats before you call him the WR GOAT. (Sinclair is at 6.35 YPT, doesn't scream GOAT) - Oh Grayvil's playoff YP/t is 9.40 FWIW INTEGRAL TO A CHAMPIONSHIP RUN. Now ive looked closely, it cements it even more, 1st Ballot Now for Shelton. - Time at the Vikings has to be considered the greatest WR run IMO. TDs, YPT, you name it, elite in those seasons. - Overall, his stats look worse than Gravil and more on par with Sinclair due to his poor LAC years. - The Bowl game, nuff said, but I will elaborate for those who forget. HE TOOK OVER. 212 yards on 14 targets, 4 touchdowns. If he retired at the end of his Viking career, he is still a HOFer. - UMMMM YAH! THE 2nd BOWL. Against nick for an LAC team who were written off. 178 yards on 10 targets, 2 TDs THIS GUY SINGLE HANDEDLY WON 2 TEAMS. YES 2 TEAMS BOWL GAMES. He may not have quite the same stat line, but for those moments of greatness, to an already incredible career, he must be 1st ballot as well. These are very valid points. Something that I overlooked was post season stats / Bowl game stats. Sinclair has had some great games there too. For me, this is what the HOF is about. It creates a great discussion. Taking the time to look at players yourself and pushing them into the argument. Especially players that GMs wouldn't have necessarily had an affinity to. |
|
|
|
Post by Nick on Apr 4, 2020 4:58:28 GMT -5
Yeah I think I am sold on them both as 1st ballot. The playoff accomplishments made the difference for me.
|
|
|
|
Post by Nick on Apr 10, 2020 14:50:58 GMT -5
So, Shelton and Grayvil ended up coming out of the discussion very well and will be in my final 5.
Who else do we think are strong candidates to make up the final 5?
DE Hayes - I really like him. 3rd best DE of all-time. But not 1st ballot so not a strong contender this year, but will be going forward.
Puzz - I was looking at Delcorio earlier. A different sort of career. But really I think these guys are all pretty close. Borderline HOFers.
G Fox - Surely a HOFer. Nixon was 1st ballot and this guy is close.
LB Ford - Classy player, close to Knopf. Serious HOF contender for me.
DT Cheuse - Brown and Donald's longer careers edged them ahead, but he had a great career.
I think I am sold on...
*Grayvil
*Shelton
*Ford
*Fox
Leaning towards Cheuse but could be swayed. Not sure if Ford is a HOFer but I think the other 3 go in.
|
|
|
|
Post by rush27 on Apr 10, 2020 14:57:19 GMT -5
I'm just not a fan of Fox at all. Had some good years but under 37% block success across his career.
If we are doing our final 5, mine are;
WR Grayvil
WR Shelton
DE Hayes
TE Baysinger
DT Cheuse
|
|
