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Post by squirrel on Aug 15, 2018 8:15:56 GMT -5
Wes, the short GML QB you linked to above, QB Jue, was one of mine. One of my early fake football player crushes.
Perhaps it disturbs the purity of the analysis here but I should note that he was PER=100 and I had the full chemistry edifice around him. So maybe that gave him an extra inch or two.
He was pretty good at JAX sans chemistry though before he came to me at WAS so who knows.
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Post by Bighouserulez on Aug 15, 2018 10:22:57 GMT -5
Wes, the short GML QB you linked to above, QB Jue, was one of mine. One of my early fake football player crushes. Perhaps it disturbs the purity of the analysis here but I should note that he was PER=100 and I had the full chemistry edifice around him. So maybe that gave him an extra inch or two. He was pretty good at JAX sans chemistry though before he came to me at WAS so who knows. Why do you not have a team here man lol. Yeah i was looking at alot of stuff with Shaka and his words, " discount this guy because he is on squirrels circus.
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Post by Bighouserulez on Aug 15, 2018 12:28:03 GMT -5
OK let's look at some DBs- This year in RZB the top PD corners and their coverage bars. So i came out really digging BNR coverage bars. IN one league i have an outlier of play diagnosis. If you look at the top column Man and Bump are the main cornerback skills. This is in RZB. I have a little bigger spreadsheet i will post up of more leagyues and more years.
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Post by ezlee2 on Aug 16, 2018 9:09:31 GMT -5
Wes, the short GML QB you linked to above, QB Jue, was one of mine. One of my early fake football player crushes. Perhaps it disturbs the purity of the analysis here but I should note that he was PER=100 and I had the full chemistry edifice around him. So maybe that gave him an extra inch or two. He was pretty good at JAX sans chemistry though before he came to me at WAS so who knows. Why do you not have a team here man lol. Yeah i was looking at alot of stuff with Shaka and his words, " discount this guy because he is on squirrels circus. I've asked him multiple times (including now) and it's just not the right timing in RL, but boy would I love to add him in the future.
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Post by ezlee2 on Aug 16, 2018 9:11:35 GMT -5
This is an excellent thread and one that should/could become the stuff of legends with all the talk. I don't have a lot of time to add in depth, but I want to point out what others said about HR and END with RBs. The Ol' Warhorse is a great example of the importance of those two bars. Especially, when you combine that with a talented O line
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Post by Bighouserulez on Aug 16, 2018 11:54:43 GMT -5
OK since RB seems to be the talk let me skip the DB talk as noone even replied lol.
OK here is a rundown on WRS in 4 leagues for roughly 14 years and the bars that have the most importance-
OK so take this as an average of the highest yardage WRs. I can do it on Yac and catches if we need or want-
1 RR The average guy had 82.5 in RR accross the board and the lowest in one season was 21 2 Bp The average guy is 81.4 IN BP. The lowest was 42 and 80% of them were 75 or higher 3 3rd downs I know i was like WTH but 79.25 and the lowest was 47. I cannot change the math on this one. 4 Endurance which we all agree matters tons was at 75 and the lowest player had 47. The bars that are lesser and really seem to be all over 5 Avoid Drops at 70. This was alot higher for yards then i would have thought and all over the board with a 9 on one player. 6 Adjust was the 6th which surprised me a bit at 69.4. There was only 3% of the higher end players below 40 which is neat. 7 Getting Downfield 66. Yep it is that low on the yardage totals. I was amazed myself and 67% of the players had below 75 GD which is staggering 8 Courage 62. I have always found this one pretty useless for the most part but it was decently close to GD.
As i was running it i did not take in a few things-Cohesion, Size, injuries, affinites, starts, games played. It was just a sort of the top 12-15 WRs in each league in terms of yardage only.
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Post by Strubbel94 on Aug 16, 2018 12:24:18 GMT -5
OK since RB seems to be the talk let me skip the DB talk as noone even replied lol. OK here is a rundown on WRS in 4 leagues for roughly 14 years and the bars that have the most importance- OK so take this as an average of the highest yardage WRs. I can do it on Yac and catches if we need or want- 1 RR The average guy had 82.5 in RR accross the board and the lowest in one season was 21 2 Bp The average guy is 81.4 IN BP. The lowest was 42 and 80% of them were 75 or higher 3 3rd downs I know i was like WTH but 79.25 and the lowest was 47. I cannot change the math on this one. 4 Endurance which we all agree matters tons was at 75 and the lowest player had 47. The bars that are lesser and really seem to be all over 5 Avoid Drops at 70. This was alot higher for yards then i would have thought and all over the board with a 9 on one player. 6 Adjust was the 6th which surprised me a bit at 69.4. There was only 3% of the higher end players below 40 which is neat. 7 Getting Downfield 66. Yep it is that low on the yardage totals. I was amazed myself and 67% of the players had below 75 GD which is staggering 8 Courage 62. I have always found this one pretty useless for the most part but it was decently close to GD. As i was running it i did not take in a few things-Cohesion, Size, injuries, affinites, starts, games played. It was just a sort of the top 12-15 WRs in each league in terms of yardage only. Maybe just my take, but you cant do it likd that. Its not wirkkng because the game doenst really produce an Al Shelton with 0 a 3rd down bar. So the greatest WR's will be always be well rounded. Your calculation is more about which bars contribute most to players overall rating, but that doesnt mean that this bar has equally value in the simulation. Furthermore all the average bars you mention are way above 60 so you just covered the biggest stars and their difference is always the cohesion and team surroundings. I dlnt want to be negative but i wouldn't trust your calculations at all. Sorry but just my 2cts.
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Post by Bighouserulez on Aug 16, 2018 12:54:30 GMT -5
Maybe just my take, but you cant do it likd that. Its not wirkkng because the game doenst really produce an Al Shelton with 0 a 3rd down bar. So the greatest WR's will be always be well rounded.
Yeah my data is just mining. I am not saying what is out there on bars at all.
Your calculation is more about which bars contribute most to players overall rating, but that doesnt mean that this bar has equally value in the simulation.
This is totally not true at all. I could care less on the rating. If there are 1400 players roughly out there and this is the average stats then i have no idea what you mean by overall rating. I do not even have that on my list. I just wanted to find out what bars were mostly used on the higher end players based on just stats in MP.
Furthermore all the average bars you mention are way above 60 so you just covered the biggest stars and their difference is always the cohesion and team surroundings.
Of course they are over 60 as almost all of the top 10 WRs in each league are the bigger bars.
I dlnt want to be negative but i wouldn't trust your calculations at all. Sorry but just my 2cts.
OK playing your thought here what do you not trust? All i did was data mine the info. Do you not trust the bars on each player or the statistics? That is why i wanted to run all of this in MP because my Big Red bar numbers and average actually went down.
The biggest problem i have with my numbers is they are too small and some of the top Wrs in each league are on the list for alot of years.
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Post by Nick on Aug 16, 2018 12:58:31 GMT -5
Yeah I feel we need a lot more information to draw anything from this. Highest yardage isn't a measure I would use, ypt is critical and shouldn't be ignored. In reality it so complicated to judge a WRs performance as there is so much outside influence.
I think GM perception muddys things. You think courage is important you will throw the WR the ball who has high courage and he will end up with high yardage totals.
I don't think endurance matters that much now. I can work around that.
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Post by Nick on Aug 16, 2018 13:02:17 GMT -5
How about looking at players who have gained over 1000 yards AND have a ypt over 8.50. I think at that point you can say that WR has performed well.
We still have complicating variables of course but with large enough sample size a pattern would become more trust worthy.
One thing that has occurred to me. Are some bars prone to being high than others? Are there more high RR guys out there than high AD guys just as an example. Something we need to consider when looking at averages.
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Post by Bighouserulez on Aug 16, 2018 13:07:44 GMT -5
Yeah my biggy which started all of this was GD. I have even started to try to acquire guys and draft guys in some leagues with low GD when before i was very scared of them.
I will see about a YAC or YPT and post up what i have on them. That will give us a barometer on each player.
I want the MP aspect.
When i ran the simulations in SP it really was exactly the same and all the big red bars showed more. I wanted to see what players with what bars were being used in MP. You have a tougher situation with defenses and gameplans. I wanted the bet of the best and how their stats stood out each year.
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Post by Nick on Aug 16, 2018 13:35:21 GMT -5
So at 1000 yards and 8.50 as the criteria it brings out the variables you would expect. RR, GD and BPR.
Shelton and Grayvil are there year after year.
You have GD guys lower in BPR - Humphries, Lochtefeld You have BPR guys lower in GD - Sohl, Brownless (only just missing criteria with 8.46)
This pattern keeps coming up.
But what jumps out straight away is RR is always there.
Here is the interesting bit. I am seeing players who are lowish in both GD and BPR (although high in RR). Okay not many but I am starting to think RR is the Daddy bar.
2030 - Charles Manning IND, Scott Fells SF (this guy has been a thorn in my side for years) are actually no.1 and no.2 in YPT over 11, which is epically good. I am seeing GD+BPR = of 88 and 112 on these guys respectively. 80 and 77 RR the driving force IMO.
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Post by Bighouserulez on Aug 16, 2018 13:40:02 GMT -5
OK let me look at YPT and see what that does in the 4 leagues.
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Post by ezlee2 on Aug 16, 2018 13:41:05 GMT -5
So at 1000 yards and 8.50 as the criteria it brings out the variables you would expect. RR, GD and BPR. Shelton and Grayvil are there year after year. You have GD guys lower in BPR - Humphries, Lochtefeld You have BPR guys lower in GD - Sohl, Brownless (only just missing criteria with 8.46) This pattern keeps coming up. But what jumps out straight away is RR is always there. Here is the interesting bit. I am seeing players who are lowish in both GD and BPR (although high in RR). Okay not many but I am starting to think RR is the Daddy bar.
2030 - Charles Manning IND, Scott Fells SF (this guy has been a thorn in my side for years) are actually no.1 and no.2 in YPT over 11, which is epically good. I am seeing GD+BPR = of 88 and 112 on these guys respectively. 80 and 77 RR the driving force IMO. #mindblown
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Post by Nick on Aug 16, 2018 14:02:04 GMT -5
It is a small sample size but it certainly shows that it is possible for a WR to dominate without the zippy bars over a season.
Also getting back to what I said about preconceived ideas. We put our zippy WRs in a position to win because we believe they are good. What if we put non zippy high RR guys in as our primary WRs?
My guess is that they would do better than we previously thought.
But dice rolls and sample size are over stating Fells and Manning's case as neither has performed anything close to this before.
Grayvil and Shelton are killing it every year. So I think we just have a nudge to consider less zippy high RR guys, rather than a mind blowing discovery.
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