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Post by Nick on Aug 14, 2018 2:03:42 GMT -5
I would like to see the QB height issues looked in to further. 5-9 versus 5-11 versus 6-2 kind of thing. I think most of knew HR was king. Elusiveness I am not convinced about. I think it produces quite a few stuffs. I can see three -3 yard stuffs followed by a 30 yard gain from a high elusiveness guy. I see this from Shapiro consistently. I did wonder if Pistol and Shotgun was at play, but it is still happening under centre. I would sooner have some consistency. QB positioning could be just fake bullshit window dressing again. It should be related to coverage type with DBs. Cover 1/2 = M2M, Press 1/2 = Bump etc. I don't think it is working that way. More randomly across the 3 bars. I have tried to build specific Cover defenses with huge M2M bar CBs, didn't work. I could take in the size of the QB. Quick example- GML top 12 guys all over 6 foot were Qb ratings leaders NAFL top 11 guys were all over 5 foot 11 inches(one was at 6 feet) TFL #1 and #5 were under 6 feet but the next under 6 foot guy was 16. Here in RZB the first 13 were all over 6 feet tall. This seems pretty much like 6 foot or taller unless a certain player is really a standout. You would be pretty surprised by the elusiveness on the higher end backs. RZB Elusiveness on the top 10 rushers this year- 52,38,21,68,68,94,71,8,77,51,88=57.8 GML Same-53,25,90,9,99,98,41,34,44,48=54.1 TFL Same-82,85,28,41,79,60,75,79,50,64=64.3 NAFL Same-43,69,80,3,65,2,98,78,52,49=53.9 So in 4 leagues the average Elu of a top 10 back is(41 total somehow)-57.55 High EL backs are more likely to have high HR. I bet if you looked at the HR of those guys it would be higher as that is the main driving force. Other non influential bars probably all sit around the 55-60 mark too. Some actually think EL is a negative, and has no positive impact overall. QB height really is going to be a tough one to put to bed. To get any meaningful measures result trying to pick out if any, and at what height, a disadvantage occurs.
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Post by Nick on Aug 14, 2018 2:24:06 GMT -5
I think you are over cooking BP vs GD.
Sort via YAC, GD rears its head strongly. There are not too many guys like Humphries in Buffalo, but on a struggling team with an average QB he is doing great. Ypt is the key figure for me. Not too many guys have bars like his.
GD is a bit like HR IMO. It is a factor which will kick in often. Won't get you big gains bit will move the chains.
GD and BP are the icing, RR is the cake. END you can work around pretty well now.
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Post by Pip on Aug 14, 2018 5:26:30 GMT -5
I did a little analysis on the QB height. I ran two MP leagues for 40 seasons - I have it somewhere I'll try and dig it out - the only true thing that instantly jumped out (without proper mining) was that over 80 years that only one bowl victory was recorded by a QB shorter than 6:1 (6:0 only one) and only 7 by a QB 6:4 and above.
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Post by Joel on Aug 14, 2018 6:08:09 GMT -5
I did a little analysis on the QB height. I ran two MP leagues for 40 seasons - I have it somewhere I'll try and dig it out - the only true thing that instantly jumped out (without proper mining) was that over 80 years that only one bowl victory was recorded by a QB shorter than 6:1 (6:0 only one) and only 7 by a QB 6:4 and above. I also did the same, over 100 years, and it was more around 5... I put up all the 5’11 guys stats in a post on here about 3 months ago. i found its so hard to judge as it is so dependent on the team surrounding them, the system they are in... no real pure was to test it
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Post by Nick on Aug 14, 2018 6:11:46 GMT -5
5-11 seems to be working at the Giants. Maybe Russell Wilson is Jim's bench mark.
5-9 is a big question for me. The Cards guy seems way under what you would expect. I would like to see evidence of a 5-9, or 5-11 for that matter, guy who has had a great career. I think until that emerges this will rage on.
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Post by Bighouserulez on Aug 14, 2018 9:48:51 GMT -5
I figure if i keep track of the QB size along with the bars i can get a threshold of what is not going to work. You will always have an outlier of a single 5 foot 9 guy but 4 leagues and about 6 seasons there was one under 5 foot 11 worth noting.
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Post by Joel on Aug 14, 2018 10:16:46 GMT -5
How do I post screenshots? I have been doing some 5'9 QB testing on SP
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Post by Bighouserulez on Aug 14, 2018 10:22:18 GMT -5
I think you are over cooking BP vs GD. Sort via YAC, GD rears its head strongly. There are not too many guys like Humphries in Buffalo, but on a struggling team with an average QB he is doing great. Ypt is the key figure for me. Not too many guys have bars like his. GD is a bit like HR IMO. It is a factor which will kick in often. Won't get you big gains bit will move the chains. GD and BP are the icing, RR is the cake. END you can work around pretty well now. That is were i am sort of disagreeing with you. I get that GD is the better route in the right spot and i agree with the RR plus the GD and BP. What i am seeing is the higher GD guys without BP are not getting the YAC. There are alot of them that have a BP bar with them but when that BP bar is lower your high end GD is almost muted. Vice versa there are guys with Yac that have BP but no GD bar or very little. I mean obviously the large GD and BP is ideal. We are a little off track as i was trying to bring up pass defense for corners and defensive backs. Let's ask you this- 2 players ignoring ratings overall and same height player one Jasper Jasper has great coverage combines and position drill. He is not that smart and has about 23 on SOle. He gets drafted in the first round and comes out 60 M2M/60 ZOne/60 BNR. His play diagnosis is struggling around 30. All the other bars on both players are equal. player two Steve Steve has average combines for coverage but has a huge 43 sole at the combine. He gets drafted at the end of the 1st and brings in 40 rated in M2M/Zone/Bump but has a play diagnosis of 90. His bars all match Jaspers that we did not discuss. Which player is going to be better? Ignoring cohesion and affinity which of the two players has a better pass defense?
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Post by Bighouserulez on Aug 14, 2018 10:27:51 GMT -5
How do I post screenshots? I have been doing some 5'9 QB testing on SP You can start a free account through shutterfly or some other online pic sharing places. I think i have via work dropbox and screenshot.net app
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Post by Nick on Aug 14, 2018 10:46:31 GMT -5
Jasper and it wouldn't be close IMO. But I could never have a guy called Jasper playing for me though, so I would still pick Steve.
I think Humphries at Buffalo is a great illustration. I see a guy like him consistently getting first downs. The BPR guy winds up short of the sticks often, but then pads his stats by taking one 40 yards. All stats are not equal. My RB Shapiro may look okay, but his rushing is a liability. He has safe hands so I put up with him for now. Rawls never lost yardage like he does. I want to see positive consistency. I would always go for a Battle type or even the new guy I got off Rob if the out and out stud isn't an option, forget his name. A nice even spread of the bars I want. If I was forced to make do I would be okay with a Humphries. I think his consistent chunks of yardage are more valuable against a less consistent BPR guy who puts up the same figures in a boom or bust way.
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Post by Bighouserulez on Aug 14, 2018 11:01:29 GMT -5
OK so i want you do do a neat little test when you have a minute in game.
Look at pass defense and over 400 passing plays to get a good barometer. YOu will see more often then not a Steve has better stats then a Jester in pass defense. It is sort of league by league the same holds true.
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Post by Joel on Aug 14, 2018 12:18:36 GMT -5
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Post by Joel on Aug 14, 2018 12:20:07 GMT -5
So this is the first 5'9 guy I found, I have had no impact on what he has done, just kept him some players by signing them on contracts. He seems alright to me, considering its only the start of the year. Not great, but Good QB
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Post by Nick on Aug 14, 2018 12:27:41 GMT -5
I think this is pretty solid evidence. Consistently 90+. That is pretty good for AI. What were his WRs like?
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Post by Nick on Aug 14, 2018 12:29:09 GMT -5
OK so i want you do do a neat little test when you have a minute in game. Look at pass defense and over 400 passing plays to get a good barometer. YOu will see more often then not a Steve has better stats then a Jester in pass defense. It is sort of league by league the same holds true. I certainly will. Sounds like something may have changed. I have been pissed at my DBs for a while now. This would explain the under performance.
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