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Post by rush27 on Dec 11, 2021 10:59:29 GMT -5
Jordan Kassell
DROY, DPOY, 5 x 1st team all pro, 2nd all time in tackles, 7th in assists, 1st in picks, 3rd in TD's, 4th in passes defensed amongst safeties. Outstanding PDPct of 81.9%
I think he has a legit shot at 1st year election.
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Post by Nick on Dec 11, 2021 13:51:35 GMT -5
I am happy to accept Guderian as a DT for the most part 5 x 1st Team All Pro, 2nd in tackles, 1st in sacks, joint 1st in blocks, 1st in hurries, 1st in QBkd amongst DT Malcolm Brown was 2nd year of eligibility Aaron Donald took nine years Did Leroy Cheuse make it? I think Guderian has a very good chance of being elected. Maybe playing at DE will effect him in regards to 1st year eligible. Yes Cheuse made it. Jeremy is under water at work, so despite the best of intentions I think one of us will have to write Cheuse up. Maybe I can do it, and you handle the graphics Steve?
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Post by Nick on Dec 11, 2021 13:56:59 GMT -5
These guys above all got passed over on the 1st ballot. Battle, Lane and Johnson appear the barrier Talley has to cross. I don't think Bowser can make it. McQueen was great but Rawls and Chamberlain are so far out there. It's a big gap. Don't think Mills can beat out Jake Wooden. Myers much the same story.
Not sure I can get behind any of these guys.
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Post by Nick on Dec 11, 2021 13:58:31 GMT -5
Perhaps we end up picking 3 of these to join Guderian and Kassell.
Will need to check they are all within the time limit.
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Post by Joel on Dec 11, 2021 14:24:00 GMT -5
Perhaps we end up picking 3 of these to join Guderian and Kassell. Will need to check they are all within the time limit. I’d personally have to say no to Guderian as well. He’s ok, maybe a top 5ish DT the league has had. But he’s not special best of the best. We need to get back to those roots instead of letting scrubs get in. Ultimately, he was 1st team DT a lot, but, it’s been a poor decade for stud DTs. And that’s what he’d be applying as. 8 years in that position, and he was good. But it’s not a career. And he didn’t set the world on fire as a DE
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Post by rush27 on Dec 11, 2021 14:44:27 GMT -5
I am happy to accept Guderian as a DT for the most part 5 x 1st Team All Pro, 2nd in tackles, 1st in sacks, joint 1st in blocks, 1st in hurries, 1st in QBkd amongst DT Malcolm Brown was 2nd year of eligibility Aaron Donald took nine years Did Leroy Cheuse make it? I think Guderian has a very good chance of being elected. Maybe playing at DE will effect him in regards to 1st year eligible. Yes Cheuse made it. Jeremy is under water at work, so despite the best of intentions I think one of us will have to write Cheuse up. Maybe I can do it, and you handle the graphics Steve? If you get round to it, I'll do the graphics
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Post by hildebrand on Dec 11, 2021 20:51:13 GMT -5
QB Hartman (3rd year) QB Delcorio (8th year) WR Lane (4th year) DE Hancock (9th year) LB Connell (9th year) RB Alfredo McQueen (2nd year) WR Gage Bowser (2nd year) WR Earnest Talley (2nd year) CB Harvey Myers (2nd year) CB Kaden Mills (2nd year) DE Dillon Sloan (2nd year) QB Tanner Finney (1st year) QB J.J. Hill (1st year) QB Trenton Blades (1st year) QB Frank Mason (1st year) T Bryant McDonald (1st year) DE Jonah Woods (1st year) DE/DT Frankie Guderian (1st year) S Jordan Kassell (1st year)
Updated list
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Post by hildebrand on Dec 11, 2021 21:38:47 GMT -5
My thoughts:
QB- Delcorio and Hartman are still the best available here. I have Delcorio and Hartman about the same, so Delcorio should get in first with how long he's been on the ballot. Blades is the only other QB with a case for the HoF, in my opinion. Blades is just the new McNeil/Fjelstad. Blades falls into the role of the gatekeepers at QB. Not a good enough peak to make him stand out, and he doesn't have the career longevity totals like Puzzuoli to get in the Hall.
RB- McQueen is the only nominee here, and I don't see much of a case. 3rd in career rushing yards, but only a 4.34 ypc average. Impressive to have 1000-yard seasons with three different teams, but he would have benefitted playing with a more consistent franchise.
WR- Lane is back on the ballot again. Great peak seasons and defined an era of the league. Career totals are a little lacking, but they're still impressive considering the number of games played. Talley is the only other WR with a case, in my opinion. Talley had a monster 3-year peak. Solid career totals to go with it. Talley could make it in the HoF eventually.
T- McDonald was good, but I don't really see anything special about him to push him into the HoF.
DE- Hancock is still around. Can't make a case for Hancock over Blake so it's a no for me. Sloan is back again. Really good peak and reasonable career totals, but I think he might be stuck in the borderline area with Blake. Woods blocked a lot of passes. That's about it. Hard to push a DE with under 100 sacks.
DT- I think Guderian should get in eventually. I've noticed the DT position is one of the most isolated positions in the league. It seems like every 6-7 years have a stud that takes over. First Brown (HoF), second Cheuse (HoF), third Guderian (on the ballot), fourth Caldwell (should be on the ballot eventually).
LB- Connell had a solid career, but I think he's still on the borderline for the HoF. I may need to think about him longer.
DB- Kassell is the only DB put up that stands out. 2nd among S in tackles and one of the best ball hawks the league has seen with a healthy lead in career INTs. Kassell will get my vote.
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Post by Nick on Dec 12, 2021 3:05:13 GMT -5
I think we need to be careful of positional bias. Of course that's not to say a selector personally may wish to go a little softer on QBs. That would be their choice. Personally I see Delcorio as a guy who didn't have a lot of impact, and never really came across as a special player. Whilst Hartman did tick those boxes, his extremely weak start and end to his career let him down badly.
If we were looking at any other position, would we accept that level of quality? I would have to say no.
I can't in good conscious vote for Lane either, I feel Downs was a better player. The best TE in league history in his prime.
It does appear that Kassell is the leading candidate this year. With that in mind it does make it difficult to make a case for Guderian being a 1st ballot. I like him for the HOF, but I am leaning towards making him wait.
Our job is soon to be about listing the best 5 players in the process. I still like Sloan and Connell. Not flashy names but I think their stats hold water.
Will people remember Hartman over those guys in 20 seasons? Probably. I don't see that as a valid reason to vote him in over those guys. But your criteria of course can be different.
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Post by rush27 on Dec 12, 2021 3:21:56 GMT -5
I think Delcorio deserves to be in personally. And probably Hartman down the line.
Guderian isn't 1st ballot but possibly later on.
Kassell has a good chance at 1st ballot
Going to struggle picking five players but I do have two that I would vote in
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