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Post by Sawblade300 on Oct 8, 2021 9:44:32 GMT -5
If it's during the season, you can add/change up to 10 or 12 plays per week. But once the week changes over to the next week, those changes are lost and the PB reverts back to it's original. UNLESS...you ask the commish to upload your PB. Then the changes will stay, I'm pretty sure this is how this works. If I'm wrong, someone can correct me. Ahhhhhh... So you make the changes in the PB and not the GP? I was trying to edit plays in the GP. I guess that's why the changes didn't take. Yes, in the PB. Then if you ask Rob to export your PB after saving and exporting, I believe those changes will stinck
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Post by davehibb on Oct 8, 2021 9:47:39 GMT -5
No rush for game 17, I was just messing around last night but moving forward and looking to next season, it's time to channel my inner Matt Nagy... Or not!
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Post by thefatcat on Oct 13, 2021 2:32:33 GMT -5
I've never built 200 plays myself, it's amazing when you do this the actual ideas you come up with for gameplans and not only that the little bits of info you get from reading the manual
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Post by Nick on Oct 20, 2021 16:00:36 GMT -5
Just reading your questions on FOFC Dave, I did mean to respond but didn't get round to it.
Play Action - From what I understand it weakens your pass protection but increases the chance of a pass being successful if it does hold up as the receiver has a better chance at getting open. That's the theory, never tested it.
I did test keeping players in to block, didn't find any improvement to pass protection. Just a quick and crude test though.
QB position. Shotgun is supposed to improve pass protection as the expense of the running game. I do have suspicions there could be other stuff lurking under the hood here. I have never tested it though.
Playbook creation. For me it hinges on making sure I have all the plays I am going to want to run. What I mean by that is making sure that each important receiver has all the routes, from the formations I require. I throw out both primary and secondary routes to guys I don't want to throw to. I write in quite a few particular plays that I will want to run. I don't see magical combinations as such, but certain things make sense. Most passing plays do not have primary and secondary routes of the same distance. Although I will throw in some that are the same length for 3rd down scenerarios, 3 and 4 for 3rd and 10 for example.
I really like to go in considering who is going to line up where. Hardy will not be going deep and getting mainly short routes to utilise his GD, and compensate for his lack of BPR. Terry will have some short routes, but will also have plenty of deep routes to fit with his strengths. I will go through every play with that line of thinking.
So it isn't about magical route combinations, but making sure the playbook enables players to play to their strengths. Running the ball I need to make sure there are a couple of 113 and 122 runs in every direction, and that the lesser formations are represented evenly. Balance is key. I don't want to start the season and find our 3 104 runs all go through LG for example.
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Post by murph on Oct 20, 2021 16:31:45 GMT -5
In my testing play action seems to help medium and long routes, and I didn't see a worthwhile difference in short routes. - I actually tested this when I first got the game, I wish I had kept all the statistics...
As for pass blocking, I never checked this, but it seems to me I see more sacks in play action than in normal pass plays, which is why I try to stay away from play action in 3rd and long.
As far as route combinations... I run a LOT of them in my personal playbook. I never tested to see if they are better or not, but I like the idea of overloading zones or running a route combo that forces a deep safety to make a choice, even if it doesn't actually work in FOF. My favorite route combination is a TE curl, Z Post or Z Comeback, TE Corner combo. I've had particular success with these combos, although it doesn't mean anything as I haven't tested similar plays not in the route combination to compare.
Finally, QB question for Nick, or anyone that has an answer... Does it help to have routes of varying distances and do you need a special skill set in your QB to make it work better? For example, say you have a dig (primary), comeback (secondary), and corner and screen pattern in your play. Will a smarter QB dump to the screen if it's man or 3 or 4 deep zone? What type of QB will actually read the defense and make the appropriate throw, if it will happen at all that the QB can read the play? I like creating multiple level or multiple route plays, but I have yet to see a QB make the best throw based on the defense. I'm sure there are many factors, but I'd like to maximize my QBs ability.
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Post by thefatcat on Oct 20, 2021 16:39:47 GMT -5
As for pass blocking, I never checked this, but it seems to me I see more sacks in play action than in normal pass plays, which is why I try to stay away from play action in 3rd and long. Play Action is used to fool the defense to think you are running when in fact you pass, therefore defenses are very unlikely to be fooled by play action on 3rd and long as they expect pass 90% of the time anyway.
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Post by thefatcat on Oct 20, 2021 16:43:59 GMT -5
I have noticed when building a playbook you have to have extra protection in sometimes to make a play go from say "solid to best" when using certain philosophies. The Help File clearly says that the better the play fits your OC Philosophy the better the play will be. So perhaps there is a 5% better chance of a completion or a better 5% chance of a run breaking open?
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Post by julioriddols on Oct 20, 2021 22:59:01 GMT -5
There is definitely a lot to consider with making plays, but scheme fit to me is paramount. Don't make plays that are less than solid matches if you can avoid it. Definitely helps to have a best over a solid too, IMO. Making plays like this also gives you some insight as to how these different offenses are meant to operate in FOF.
I think I agree with the play action assessment above, it's good for longer throws.. I do see people like Ben and tzach using it on 3rd and long, but they typically have excellent pass protection skills among their offensive lines, which I think helps a lot of course.
With varying routes, I read the help file for what defenses are weak against, then design my primary and secondary routes so that one of the two beats the coverage I expect in a passing situation while the other beats another type of coverage, and I usually try to make my tertiary routes downfield routes to theoretically "clear out" the secondary on a play. I don't know if it helps YAC, but I do think it helps YPA/YPT.
The main thing I believe that helps maximize returns is to marry whatever your playbook is to your most exploitable skills. Try to use the hell out of any bar that any guy has above 90. That player will win often when asked to do that thing, even if their other bars are pedestrian. This, to me, is why RR is king now for WR.. At least in my downfield passing game. If you run an offense full of slants and screens you might go with more of a GD/BP combo and throw short and let the WR do the work.. RR loses a lot of it's luster in that kind of offense. That said, short passing teams either have to be elite at short passing, or they have to be able to throw medium and long occasionally too. You have to mix things up and also find ways to keep from giving any one player too much of the same thing from the same look.. Like, don't have your RB run off RT from the I formation on a bunch of different plays.. Don't run deep ins over and over again with the same WR from the same WR position. If you want to maximize a guy on a particular type of route, I think moving him around helps avoid familiars more.
Variety is the spice of FOF, but no dish is gonna go over well if the stuff you put on the table doesn't still taste good together.
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Post by Nick on Oct 21, 2021 1:46:47 GMT -5
I have noticed when building a playbook you have to have extra protection in sometimes to make a play go from say "solid to best" when using certain philosophies. The Help File clearly says that the better the play fits your OC Philosophy the better the play will be. So perhaps there is a 5% better chance of a completion or a better 5% chance of a run breaking open? I believe "fitting the philosophy" is indicted by the best fit markings - solid, good, fair etc.
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Post by Nick on Oct 21, 2021 2:01:01 GMT -5
Finally, QB question for Nick, or anyone that has an answer... Does it help to have routes of varying distances and do you need a special skill set in your QB to make it work better? I think so, but more in the way Julio is explaining. I think skill sets apply via the bars. SR needed more for deep balls and play action, although obviously it is always important. Accuracy = YAC, so matters for your short passes. The passing bars apply according to distance, but not massively important. I believe they show themselves in "bad throws", which are indicated in the box score. For example, say you have a dig (primary), comeback (secondary), and corner and screen pattern in your play. Will a smarter QB dump to the screen if it's man or 3 or 4 deep zone? No, intelligence makes no difference. Read defense is the critical bar. Don't think it is a big modifier, but I still think its the bar which help some. Throwing away from DC, that sort of thing. Going back to what Julio said, facing 4 deep, I believe 5/6, is asking for trouble. Where as 5/1 would be a better call. Unless its 3rd 17 and you really trust your QB to force it. What type of QB will actually read the defense and make the appropriate throw, if it will happen at all that the QB can read the play? I like creating multiple level or multiple route plays, but I have yet to see a QB make the best throw based on the defense. I'm sure there are many factors, but I'd like to maximize my QBs ability. I think the read defense bar is what you need to look at. But over the years the game has been tailored and refined over and over. This bar isn't the answer to all your prayers, a small modifier I believe. It sounds like Julio and I agree, using your strengths and finding that balance is absolutely key. That is where I would be putting in a lot of time. Considering your players and looking at other successful teams. You have a certain amount of leeway, but if you do want to push a certain angle you better be using a high variety of formations. Throwing the same route to various positions. Balance is an absolute key in this game.
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Post by thefatcat on Oct 21, 2021 2:30:47 GMT -5
Variety is the spice of FOF, but no dish is gonna go over well if the stuff you put on the table doesn't still taste good together. Love this analogy!
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Post by murph on Oct 21, 2021 5:00:13 GMT -5
So Read Defense bar probably. I know it helps to throw away from double coverage (which, from my very small amount of experience seems like a waste as I rarely see a QB throw into double coverage and get an INT or PD... but then I don't double cover often), but I didn't even think of the obvious. I think for next year's RZB Illustrated, I'll do some testing on QBs. Lot of work ahead to do it and get the data I want Thanks Julio and Nick. Appreciate everyone in this community!
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Post by julioriddols on Oct 21, 2021 6:21:40 GMT -5
Read defense is definitely a good way to take advantage of having a deep WR corps IMO. Have them run routes that make the D make a choice, then let the QB fill in the blanks based on the coverage. Theoretically avoiding the double is more about finding the better option when the D is focusing on shutting down one of them. I would assume there would be more big plays on plays where the QB throws away from DC, but could be wrong there.
The hard part about testing is that it is impossible to take into account all the varying differences in defenses you face week to week. There are scheme differences at the base of it, then each team is likely to use a very different strategy and have different talent levels to execute those strategies as well.
I do love testing though, so I am not trying to discourage it in any way. I love seeing what people come up with and what angles they take to find their data. I just always take it as a relatively minor influence on my actual game planning choices because it all happens in the vacuum of that particular test universe and doesn't always reliably carry over.
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Post by davehibb on Oct 22, 2021 1:48:41 GMT -5
I don't want to close off the conversation by any means guys but the insight everyone is sharing here is invaluable.
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