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Post by murph on Aug 29, 2021 8:43:17 GMT -5
I play other games MP (mostly FHM and OOTP, but some others as well). I always wondered at the difference in how players like to draft in a football league. What's your technique and why do you use it?
Also, if you don't mind my picking your brains, what do you suggest for a new player like me when drafting? In SP, I try to draft to fill holes in my roster. Looking through all the stuff you all post in here, it seems like many prefer the Best Player Available option, and if you're overloaded at a position, you just make player trades to fill holes and reduce the crowded position group.
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Post by Pip on Aug 29, 2021 8:52:55 GMT -5
I always take BPA 1st rd (in my eyes anyway!) however this policy has left me short in a couple of positions and over stocked in others
I used to - when I paid more attention try and pick up a couple of special teamers in the later rounds
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Post by Nick on Aug 29, 2021 8:53:06 GMT -5
I play other games MP (mostly FHM and OOTP, but some others as well). I always wondered at the difference in how players like to draft in a football league. What's your technique and why do you use it? Also, if you don't mind my picking your brains, what do you suggest for a new player like me when drafting? In SP, I try to draft to fill holes in my roster. Looking through all the stuff you all post in here, it seems like many prefer the Best Player Available option, and if you're overloaded at a position, you just make player trades to fill holes and reduce the crowded position group. I would look at it as a sliding scale. Just how desperate is the need versus is the BPA clearly the BPA, what is the margin. Secondly, and again on a sliding scale a GM can consider how far he wants to move towards the BPA or filing the need line of thinking. BPA being 1 and drafting for need being 10, I would probably be a 4. Sometimes I will leave the guy I view as BPA on the board, but I would guess slightly more than average I would be inclined to pick the BPA and work the details out later.
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Post by murph on Aug 29, 2021 9:08:00 GMT -5
Nick, I appreciate how you put it. Thinking about it, I've played maybe 50 seasons SP since I started with FOF8 (not much, really). It seems like I do a lot of reaching to get a player to fill a need. Using a sliding scale to figure out what is best is a good approach. Several times, as I think back, I would probably have taken a best player available or traded down in certain instances instead of trying to make a reach pick to fill a roster spot.
Pip, is there a reason you prefer BPA in the first round, even though it's put you in a few awkward spots? As for special teamers, I think I read somewhere, maybe in these forums, about how many MP players don't put enough attention into special teams and how important they can actually be. I think it's a great idea to use the later picks for special teams players if you don't see a good bargain pick.
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Post by clown on Aug 29, 2021 9:18:12 GMT -5
BPA. Is not always the highest number rated player. Most of us value certain positions way way more than other positions. Your team eventually turns into you, who you are. 53 little fake football Clowns. I Love this game
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Post by Pip on Aug 29, 2021 9:24:17 GMT -5
Nick, I appreciate how you put it. Thinking about it, I've played maybe 50 seasons SP since I started with FOF8 (not much, really). It seems like I do a lot of reaching to get a player to fill a need. Using a sliding scale to figure out what is best is a good approach. Several times, as I think back, I would probably have taken a best player available or traded down in certain instances instead of trying to make a reach pick to fill a roster spot. Pip, is there a reason you prefer BPA in the first round, even though it's put you in a few awkward spots? As for special teamers, I think I read somewhere, maybe in these forums, about how many MP players don't put enough attention into special teams and how important they can actually be. I think it's a great idea to use the later picks for special teams players if you don't see a good bargain pick. I honestly don't think I've ever drafted for position in the 1st couple of rounds Murph. Not sure why - that's why i always end up with a stupid amount of defensive 1st rd players. I'm going to have to be flexible in the upcoming drafts mind. Many will argue that a 50 rated WR will be better value than a 65 rated line backer - I think we've had some good threads about it in the past. I just try not to fluff the pick - the draft here in RZB is very special and at one point we hit an overly critical analysis of the 1st rd picks - we've been lucky to have 2/3 guys that review the 1st RD - Max has picked up the mantle this year and done an excellent job. I'd be over critical to myself if I picked up a C grade! Joel loves a calculated gamble - I'm not that exciting! As per the special teams - I have no real interest in the game planning aspect of FOF, however I love drafting and roster building so I need every bit of help when it comes to the actual game. As you may know Nick is the GOAT and he reiterated it to me several times (!) not to overlook putting out the best ST crew you can - common sense really - I try to affect what I can.
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Post by sweendawg72 on Aug 29, 2021 9:49:54 GMT -5
I play other games MP (mostly FHM and OOTP, but some others as well). I always wondered at the difference in how players like to draft in a football league. What's your technique and why do you use it? Also, if you don't mind my picking your brains, what do you suggest for a new player like me when drafting? In SP, I try to draft to fill holes in my roster. Looking through all the stuff you all post in here, it seems like many prefer the Best Player Available option, and if you're overloaded at a position, you just make player trades to fill holes and reduce the crowded position group. I am a combination of BPA and Fill a Need Murph. I tend to look at the draft class. For instance if my Biggest need is a position that is deep in the draft I am more likely to pick up the BPA in the 1st Round and pick up that Biggest need position in the 2nd Round where I feel I will still get good value. I suck at drafting though so don't listen to me....lol
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Post by Sawblade300 on Aug 29, 2021 9:51:45 GMT -5
I've been leaning more towards BPA in the 1st regardless of need. Unless I have an already solid group/depth at that position on my roster. Then I'll move to BPA at the biggest need position. So it really all depends on your current roster, where you want that roster to go and what you value most.
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Post by Joel on Aug 29, 2021 10:03:06 GMT -5
Yeah, I have never really been a BPA or Need guy.
I think BPA (if we are talking the highest rated guy available) is flawed, as it tends to mean loading up too much on one position, and not adding value where its probably needed. Like, why would you draft an 80 rated DE, when you have a very good 65 rated one.
I also dont like the notion of drafting off of need, because i think others will attest to this, doing it always seems to go wrong. You pigeon hole a guy into being what you want, and they usually are a level below, and a disappointing rd1 pick up.
I think the better way of drafting rd1 is to quantify what you think a player will add to your wins per year. Like getting a 55 rated QB in rd1 is far better than an 80 rated DB, and so on. I think there are positions of more value, where i'd take the 'lesser' talent; these positions are QB, WR, TE and now the OL is the new black. For me, i look at it and go "this 58 rated WR can add 0.8 wins a year, where that 70 rated LB will add 0.3"
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Post by ManWithNoName on Aug 29, 2021 11:09:52 GMT -5
I usually look for players that fill needs and then move up to where I think they’ll go so in that sense I’m looking for needs but trying to pick them at spots where they would be the best player available. But I’ll always look at guys like WRs and QBs because a good one has lots of value so I’ll reach for those guys even though they aren’t needs or maybe even the BPA.
Later rounds are obviously always a bit of a crap shoot so that’s mostly just looking for guys you think might pop or that are playing the wrong position.
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Post by grimmer on Aug 30, 2021 0:38:13 GMT -5
This year I seem to be a need guy. I picked up 2 QB's in the draft and one UFA. smh
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Post by murph on Aug 30, 2021 9:24:33 GMT -5
Lots of good info here, guys. Thanks! I can see value looking at it from different angles...
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tzach
Franchise Owner
Bench Warmer
Browns GM
Posts: 425
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Post by tzach on Jul 29, 2022 2:14:52 GMT -5
i'll bump an old thread to add some info.
IMO the decision between BPA and need depends primarily on how well you draft compared to the rest of the league.
the key point is that *not* drafting BPA will give you a less talented roster over time (anyone can test this in SP in a couple hrs), which in general translates to less wins.
the only way to effectively make up for that is to draft better than average in rounds 3-7 so you can get some talent even when you are passing on the BPA. it's difficult to do it any other way unless you can easily get players in FA (if other GMs don't export) or fleece inexperienced GMs to trade their players to you. in a top MP league these 2 options are generally not available.
in my view you have to consider how your drafting skills rank relative to the league. if you are much better than average you can get away with going for need over BPA, while below average drafters would do better by drafting BPA (higher chance of hitting) and getting their needs in FA+trade market. at least that's how i operated in gml/ccfl for a number of years when i had little idea about drafting or game planning.
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Post by squirrel on Jul 29, 2022 3:52:50 GMT -5
i'll bump an old thread to add some info. IMO the decision between BPA and need depends primarily on how well you draft compared to the rest of the league. the key point is that *not* drafting BPA will give you a less talented roster over time (anyone can test this in SP in a couple hrs), which in general translates to less wins. the only way to effectively make up for that is to draft better than average in rounds 3-7 so you can get some talent even when you are passing on the BPA. it's difficult to do it any other way unless you can easily get players in FA (if other GMs don't export) or fleece inexperienced GMs to trade their players to you. in a top MP league these 2 options are generally not available. in my view you have to consider how your drafting skills rank relative to the league. if you are much better than average you can get away with going for need over BPA, while below average drafters would do better by drafting BPA (higher chance of hitting) and getting their needs in FA+trade market. at least that's how i operated in gml/ccfl for a number of years when i had little idea about drafting or game planning. Agree with all of this but worth bearing in mind that American sports fans generally mis-use BPA as a term. Happens all the time when you watch the NFL draft on TV. Most people when they say 'best player available' aren't quite saying what they mean. I think in most instances what they mean is 'scarcest skillset available', or put differently 'hardest-to-replace player available' which would make a lot more sense. That's certainly what I try to think about it when drafting, FWIW. A concrete way to get better at this / learn-by-doing on this is if you have a snake draft in your NFL fantasy league. Try switching to 'value based drafting' - comparing to baselines and considering relative scarcity - which has worked wonders for me over the past few years. Don't tell any of my mates in my league! Look up 'beersheets' on Reddit which even calculates all the numbers for you...it's basically totally unfair PEDs but for NFL fantasy https://www.reddit.com/r/fantasyfootball/comments/4vpybf/beersheets_example_value_based_draft/
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tzach
Franchise Owner
Bench Warmer
Browns GM
Posts: 425
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Post by tzach on Jul 29, 2022 4:28:27 GMT -5
Most people when they say 'best player available' aren't quite saying what they mean. I think in most instances what they mean is 'scarcest skillset available', or put differently 'hardest-to-replace player available' which would make a lot more sense. That's certainly what I try to think about it when drafting, FWIW.
that's an interesting point -- but if that's what they mean i'll play some devil's advocate (re: NFL, not FOF)
- aren't all positions more or less equally hard to replace? - if people mean hardest-to-replace available, should a RB ever figure in the top 100?
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