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Post by Joel on May 6, 2019 9:21:29 GMT -5
Ramon Hatch T - 2nd in KRB for T - 3rd in KRO for T - 2nd in pancakes for T - allowing 76 sacks is a negative for me, its less than Robinson, but a lot more than Fonda, and Robinson outweighs his due to all the pancakes. - his 1% sack allow puts him in an elite group, but not all time great.
I think he is probably the 3rd best retired T we have had. But none of his numbers really pop, he was just good at everything but never the best. Not generational. I think he is a possible HOF, but not 1st ballot, and we need to see what some of the new guys in the league do, as they could make Hatch look less worthy. A la Cary Loverne or Efrain Baker. But most of his sacks came in the last 3 years, the period before he was better than Fonda IMO. But this is the issue, you can’t say take away his bad years, it doesn’t work like that. If it did, we could do the same for so many guys. It’s all about the entire body of work, even if it was a bad last 3 years, it still takes his %’s down. i think he is probably HOF, just not 1st ballot
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Post by ezlee2 on May 6, 2019 9:23:22 GMT -5
Teddy is a moot point at this point in regards to the HOF as voted on by the GMs. He's an in-game HOFer though which still counts for something IMO. This HOF has very high standards which I'm cool with. The best of the best.
Just like Hatch is not 1st ballot material IMO
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Post by Nick on May 6, 2019 9:24:50 GMT -5
I am stepping down from the HOF. No hard feelings just not going where I wanted it to. I will leave you guys to sort out a new president of the HOF committee. ? What inductees are you not happy with? Where has this gone that you don’t like? We haven’t even got to nominees yet and you’ve decided you don’t like what you’re seeing? What exactly do you want to see? The past 2 seasons the process has been dominated by GMs pushing their own players. Avoiding that has been my no.1 goal from the outset. I have asked nicely. Less nicely. Now I am pissed off and lost patience with it. I would rather move on and leave you guys to it.
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Post by ManWithNoName on May 6, 2019 9:32:28 GMT -5
? What inductees are you not happy with? Where has this gone that you don’t like? We haven’t even got to nominees yet and you’ve decided you don’t like what you’re seeing? What exactly do you want to see? The past 2 seasons the process has been dominated by GMs pushing their own players. Avoiding that has been my no.1 goal from the outset. I have asked nicely. Less nicely. Now I am pissed off and lost patience with it. I would rather move on and leave you guys to it. Seems like you’re throwing a pointless fit. Teddy didn’t get in. Hatch isn’t going to be a 1st ballot. Your upset about something that hasn’t even happened, an undeserving player making the HoF.
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Post by Nick on May 6, 2019 10:00:03 GMT -5
I would just rather put my time in elsewhere. This hasn't gone where I hoped. Not a big deal.
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Post by ezlee2 on May 6, 2019 10:05:35 GMT -5
IDK, Nick- you set a very high standard for this and we've made it reserved for the best of the best. This was all your baby. Shame to see you drop out over something so trivial. Did I lobby for Teddy? Yes, did it spark great discussion, investigation into stats and a solid argument for him being left out? Yes. To me, I see that as being as big a part of this as who winds up in Canton.
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Post by Nick on May 6, 2019 10:19:08 GMT -5
It really isn't the way it should be. A selector should not be drawing attention to his own players as it makes the process a biased one. JMO.
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Post by rush27 on May 6, 2019 13:02:53 GMT -5
Some guys may have missed the full post as I was editing back and forth. Here it is; I have tried to look at guys in regards to their respective positions rather than just offense and defense. Recently discussed prospect... S Gunn - 1st in Interceptions, 1st in forced fumbles and 1st in recovered fumbles among Safeties. 6th in passes defensed. Didn't get many all pro nods. Two rings. 2nd year of eligibility.DT Donald - 3rd in tackles, 2nd in sacks, 2nd in blocks, 2nd in QB knockdowns and joint 1st in hurries amongst interior lineman. 3rd in forced fumbles also. 3 x 1st team all pro and one ring. 9th Year of eligibility.C Rogers - 3rd in KRB, 3rd in KRO, Block% above 40, 3rd in Pancake blocks. Three 1st team all pro nods and five rings. 3rd year of eligibility.QB Bridgewater - Now 7th in passing yards, 4th in TD passes, also thrown 6th most Interceptions though. His QBR is 5th highest amongst QB's with at least 100 starts. 8th year of eligibility.S Banks - 2nd in Tackles, 3rd in Interceptions. Four 1st Team all pro nods. 5th Year of eligibilityWR Samuels - 1st in catches, 1st in yards, 6th in TDs. 6th in 100 yard games. 6th Year of eligibility.WR Beckham - 3rd in catches, 2nd in yards. 8th year of eligibility.C Polk - 2nd in KRB, 2nd in KRO, 2nd in pancakes blocks. 3rd year of eligibilityK Rebensdorf - 1st in Field Goals, over 80% success rate, Three rings. 2nd Year of eligibility.LB Carpenter - Five rings. 2nd Year of eligibilityRecently retired... QB Ralph McNeil - 1st in Completions, 1st in Yards, 2nd in TD's. Joint 1st in Interceptions and a sub 90 QBR.TE Kurt Downs - 4th in Yards, 1st in YPT amongst guys with over 500 targets. 4th in TDs. S Vernon Koski - Joint 6th in Interceptions, 1st in passes defensed, T Ramon Hatch - 2nd in KRB, 3rd in KRO, 39.9 block%, 2nd in Pancake blocks, Five 1st Team all pros.DT Herman Binns - 4th in Sacks, 1st in Fumble recoveries.S Ethan Kucharski - 6th in Tackles, 2nd in passes defensed.G Rodolfo Boss - 5th in KRB, 41.5 % block success.DE Axel Damm - 4th in hurries.LB Mackenzie Barlow - (Played a lot of OLB as well). 2nd in Interceptions amongst all LB's. Rookie of the Year and three 1st team all pro nods.Guys I would throw into the mix... QB Brock Osweiler - 67.9% throw success, 3rd all time in QBR amongst guys with over 100 starts. 9th Year of eligibilityQB Marcus Mariota - 2nd in completions, 2nd in yards, 3rd in TDs but joint 1st in interceptions. 4th Year of eligibilityRB Ty Manumaleuna - 6th in Yards, 6th in TDs, 3rd in 100 yard games. 4th Year of eligibilityTE Reuben Baysinger - 2nd in catches, 2nd in yards, 2nd in TDs. Three 1st team all pro nods. 2nd Year of eligibility.WR Rickey Davison - 5th in catches, 6th in yards, 3rd in 100 yard games. 6th year of eligibility.G Jack Mewhort - 1st in KRB, 1st in KRO, 4th in Pancake blocks. Three time 1st team all pro. 9th year of eligibilityOLB Kevin Minter - 3rd in Sacks, Joint 2nd in blocks, 1st in hurries, 1st in QB knockdowns. Defensive player of the Year. 11th year of eligibility
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Post by Bighouserulez on May 6, 2019 14:07:16 GMT -5
Hey guys i am here for sure.
OK for the Qbs i beat that dead horse hard last year. I want to make sure we do not let down the line on QBs from here on out. That meaning we make sure the elite guys are in and let the best of the best sort of move up the ladder as time goes on. Teddy is probably the 4th or 5th best QB in RZB but IMO he cannot be in as that lets too many guys that are not good enough like Jameis Winston and LUck and like 4-5 guys.
Let's chatter about the bar of who is in(that always gets me)- QB Big Ben QB Cam Newton QB Perry RB Rawls Rb Peter Chamberlain TE Bo Moss C Henry Hitchcock OT Greg Robinson OT Jack Fonda DT Malcom Brown DE Mack Khalil DE Clowney DE Theodore Huffman LB Von Miller LB Austin Parrish LB Jon Strong LB Sammy Farmer CB Chris Harris
OK so QBs Brock Osweiler-I know this convo is overdone but he is in that group with the all the great stats. 3rd in Qb rating with over 100 GP. The others noone really stands out next for me. Teddy and Mariota and Winston are all together.
Rbs- James Upshaw not sure if i remember really going in depth with him 3rd all time in yards rushing 4th all time in tds 4th all time in 100 yard games Ty-He gets ruined for me when i pull up his one 2300 yard season then see so much mediocrity after and before that. Devonte Hayes is a neat one as he has the same percentage per game as the HOfers and 100 yard games. He just has a shorter career.
WRs- I mean Davidson we have beaten to death. His YPC kills him in this realm despite being one of the highest in stats thus far in RZB. Skip Samuels is a major no for me unless you really want to put a special teamer he was just neveer ever elite.
TE there is not a soul here worth talking about after Bo lol
K I cannot push a kicker and "the great" Just played almost 300 games so that is what really worked in his favor in stats.
Oline- C KC Polk is right at Henry Hitchcock's heels and i think at least worth the discussion at C. He is one of the guys i think has to be in my top 10 or so. G Boss really does look really good on paper. He was just a mainstay for us i cannot pimp him but great KRBS 5th all time 41% 52 pancakes and only 32 sacks allowed which is 2nd best only to Nixon in that group G Jack Mewhort played in a lot of games but the only G with 400 KRbs in history did allow 56 sacks allowed T Ramon Hatch really is a beast here #2 all time in OT in KRBS and 39.9 KRB opp guy. He did allow 76 sacks which hurts a ton as that puts him in the top 12 of sacks allowed careerwise.
Dline- DE Ryan Kerrigan 890 tackles is massive but he played part linebacker so how do we rate him? DE Conrad Torres sort of a poor man's Mack Khalil. DT Aaron Donald #3 in tackles #2 in sacks #2 in blocks #1 in hurries and 2 in QB knockdowns. Yes HOf worthy for sure IMO
LInebackers LB-Emannual Cote- #6 in tackles for IILBs #1 in sacks #3 in blocks 2 IN QB knockdownws 11 career picks and 77% pass defense 25 FF this guy was good. LB-Christian Geppeto #1 in OLB ints with 28 wow and 1000 career tackles 17 sacks 10 FF
Cornerbacks CB-Jalen Collins 51 picks and #1 all time with a 80.8 career pass defense percentage CB Douglas Newhart #2 n CB all time in tackles and the 31 career interceptions with and 81.8 career pass defense
S- We talked about these guys.
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Post by Bighouserulez on May 6, 2019 14:09:08 GMT -5
Just to add to Rush's had work i wanted to say nice work going through them man.
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Post by rush27 on May 6, 2019 14:35:30 GMT -5
Wes, what is your view on Rogers and Polk? Polk has the better stats with more games thrown in but Rogers has the all pro nods and five rings
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Post by ManWithNoName on May 6, 2019 17:11:52 GMT -5
Brock has a good rating but 240 TDs (19th) and 36,712 (21th) are not impressive. We let Big Ben in with less but he was a special case because he was so far and away the best QB in the league while he played.
Also he appeared in 9 playoff games and but up a QB rating of 75.2 which is not great.
RBs: its going to be hard to admit anyone else because Rawls and Chamberlain have set the bar so high.
WRs: With Shelton, Battle, Grayvil are on the verge of retirement and will all probably get in at some point. I think they set the bar for WRs.
TEs: Baysinger should get some consideration. TEs aren't supposed to put up the numbers that Moss put up. Those are WR numbers. I don't think we can hold all TEs to that standard. No one else is even in Moss's wheelhouse right now. Ken Walters probably has the best shot at getting near him in total production but he will probably still finish 2-3,000 yards short.
Oline: Both Polk and Rogers are dead even for me.
Dline: I think Shinners deserves a little more consideration. Played 3 less seasons than Mack but had only 3.5 less sacks. Was also 1st team twice, 2nd team once, the DRotY, and the DPotY. He had a short career. He surrounded by guys that played 30-40 more games than him in the career statistics list.
LBs: Barlow is the best candidate right now. I'd compare him to Austin Parrish where he's a guy that just did everything for his team. The only other player to have at least 900 tackles, 40 sacks, and 20 INTs is Austin Parrish who was a 1st ballot HoF. Barlow is not on his level but he's the closest in my eyes.
CB: I like Collins. I think Brent Burton, when he retires, might be better. His PD% is 2 points lower but he'll end his career 2nd all time in INTs by a CB, 1st in FF, and tied for second behind just Rico Buckley in TDs with 11 and that's coming from a guy with 0s in both return skills.
S: I think Gunn, Prior and Banks are all really close. If one gets in they should probably all get in.
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Post by Bighouserulez on May 6, 2019 21:26:45 GMT -5
Wes, what is your view on Rogers and Polk? Polk has the better stats with more games thrown in but Rogers has the all pro nods and five rings I will look more in depth tomorrow polk was such a standout I may have slipped by rogers
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Post by Joel on May 7, 2019 9:42:21 GMT -5
I would like to have a bit more of a conversation on WRs, I think that both Justin Hunter and Mike Evans deserve some discussion. They both had truly elite y/pt, which translates well.
And how about Todd Gurley? I know he doesn't have the most rushing yards, however, he is still 2nd in all purpose yards. And in terms of all purpose yards a game, he is still miles ahead of anyone else
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Post by Strubbel94 on May 7, 2019 13:57:22 GMT -5
I would like to have a bit more of a conversation on WRs, I think that both Justin Hunter and Mike Evans deserve some discussion. They both had truly elite y/pt, which translates well.
And how about Todd Gurley? I know he doesn't have the most rushing yards, however, he is still 2nd in all purpose yards. And in terms of all purpose yards a game, he is still miles ahead of anyone else I guess his Minnesota years don't do him justice. It could hurt his HoF stock to be honest and if we think about Shelton, Grayvil and Sinclair he can't reach these three guys IMO
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